We are very much on the same page and I realized this immediately. The death of children or any civilians in any country in the many active conflicts is haunting. It turns my stomach ever time I think about it. I have very good friends who are Israelis, Palestinians, Turks, Armenians, Ukrainians, Russians, and the list goes on. None of these people are any different because they were born in country X. None of them would intentionally harm a hair on a child's head. Unfortunately, the universality of mankind has not been promoted and of human values and virtues receives no airtime. And the sociopaths are in charge or become in charge or spend their lives spreading hate. When I was an exchange student in 1967 in Nuremberg, my German "father" told me the worst this about living under the Nazis was the inability to tell your children who they were. If you did, they'd possibly repeat it at school and you'd end up in a camp yourself. He was badly wounded in the Eastern Front. He had no choice about fighting for Hitler. Let's hope that things will improve in all these terrible cases. On a personal note, I wish you and your family a wonderful 2024.
Hi Ed, I agree with you about Hamas and the need to Palestinians to accept peaceful co-existence. They will fare dramatically better if they do. But we need to listen to everyone's views and understand that no one has a monopoly on grievance or justice. The more we hear opposing views, the more we can reason with each other and find common ground that can mutually improve the status quo. Merry Christmas, Larry
No, 12 year old children are not legitimate targets. If a Hamas terrorist is standing next to them, that's a call you'd have to make. How would you make it were you an Israeli? This is why it must end and this is why the only way it will end is for Hamas to deliver the hostages and go into exile. Can we agree on that?
Ahmet, Hamas committed an unspeakable horror. They are a terror group with the goal of exterminating all Jews. If the Israelis had this agenda for the Palestinian people, there would no longer be a Palestinian people. Yes, Palestinians have a right to their historical grievances about the loss of land in Israel. The British have their's as well. So do the Turks and all the other groups, including the descendants of the Christian crusaders, about this land that they all can as theirs. But when you have lost, you look for your best way forward. After many attempts to defeat Israel, the Arab nations have decided it's time to make peace. Palestinians need to do the same. They will end up with much more land at the end of the day if they do. If they side with terror groups, and, to be clear, I'm not claiming the majority of Palestinians side with Hamas or even a large share, they will continue to lose land and property. As you can read in my newsletter, I think civilians in Palestine need food, shelter, medicine, and safety --immediately! I think there are ways this can happen. I'm not sure people outside of Gaza -- like the Turkish government, are thinking about how they can help. I'm hoping my article will get governments to think out of the box about this terrible problem for which Hamas is ultimately responsible. This may be wishful thinking, but many people, at home and abroad, read this newsletter and are also reading our exchange, for which I respectfully thank you and which I appreciate.
Ahmet, What I'm saying is that we can argue right until we are blue in the face and no one will agree. At the end of the day -- and it's been a very long day since 1947 -- the reality is that Israel is here to stay. Palestinians are here to stay as well. The two sides need to live in peace and dignity and free from mutual interference and violence. But that requires both sides to accept the other side's existence. Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map and the rest of the Jews as well, from what I can tell. Not going to happen. It's wiping itself off the map. As for what was ok and what is ok, was it ok for the Romans to take Israel from the Jews? I don't think we can make progress with such questions. Again, right and justice is not what I'm discussing. I have my views, you have yours. I'm talking reality, not metaphysics. best and thanks for engaging. I do really appreciate it. Larry
Don't get me wrong I am not pro Hamas at all. But I am against dehumanization of Hamas. As I wrote below I am from Turkey and PKK commits attacks against innocent civilians. They even killed babies in their attacks to pro state Kurdish villages. In Turkish government and public discourse, the term "baby killer" is very widely used for PKK and its leaders. I am against PKK but against this language as well. You don't need to see PKK or Hamas as freedom fighters or have sympathy for them in order to be against dehumanizing language towards these organizations. Turkey and Israel should also accept their responsibilities in these problems and behave responsibility towards civilians. Also I met with some PKK members in Turkey and some had so much hatred against Turks and some were literally racist (one was claiming Turks are mongoloid and Kurds are Iranian so Kurds are a superior race). Don't expect all these hatred to disappear overnight when Turkey or Israel does the right thing. But they will disappear over time as these countries keep doing the right thing.
As a person from the region (and I am not completely secular either) I personally see Jews as an opportunity for middle east and I would not want them to leave but I want them to be part of this region and live peacefully with the other people, contribute to development of the countries in the region and ensure their security and long term existence this way. I think peace is only possible by creating such a win win equation. Otherwise even if Israel cleans Gaza and West Bank from Palestinians this much hatred will not disappear between Arabs and Israel just like ethnic cleansing of Armenians is still the main reason for hostility between Turkey and Armenia 100 years after the event. Such a peace may seem impossible today but historically Arabs and Jews had much less problems for living together then Jews and Europeans.
Dear HT, I'm talking about sheltering women and children temporarily, not forcing anyone to leave permanently. As for Hamas, read what they say and look at what they did. Israeli's aren't innocent and I'm not condoning every Israeli's behavior, but butchering, raping, murdering, decapitating civilians is not part of their playbook. It is Hamas' playbook. If you didn't see the play, watch it. Plenty of videos. It's time for Palestinians to focus on the feasible, which is not armed resistance, but peaceful co-existence. Larry
3 Israeli hostages who were killed recently were apparently naked and waving a white flag. But they were shot without even having chance to explain themselves. We know this because they were Israeli hostages. It is not hard to see similar things happening to Palestinian civilians everyday. I don't see how this is different than what Hamas did.
As long as Gazans praise and back Hamas, they do not have my sympathy when they share in Hamas' misery. Also I do not see how there can there be peaceful coexistence with people who praise their "god" whenever an Israeli citizen is killed or raped. As long as that hate filled rabid version of Islam exists, Israel won't have peace and they'd be fools to ever let their guard down. I wish them fortitude because it doesn't seem that that version of Islam is changing any time soon. The difference with the Protestant-Catholic divide in Ireland is that there the authorities in the Vatican and the Church of England and the Presbyterian churches condemned the violence as sin and outside the bounds of Christendom (the terrorists had no real religious backing) whereas the authorities in Islam promote and claim this violence, it is an essential part of their religion.
If all Palestinian people including children are responsible for October 7th attack because of their perceived support of Hamas (perceived because there are no elections in Gaza), then with the same logic all Israeli people would be responsible for the oppression and violence Israeli government is applying on Palestinians (not perceived since current right wing government is elected by Israelis) and they would also be legitimate targets. In that case the reason you hate Hamas cannot be their attack on Israeli civilians. Of course you can say I hate them for what they are not for what they did but then you cannot claim to be morally superior to Hamas.
So there are only two positions here, one is the position of Hamas and right wing Israelis, other is the position of people who are against killing of innocent civilians whether they are Israelis or Palestinians.
"We own the country because we have the power to keep it. Jews own the land of Israel because they can. It’s that simple." So what is the problem Arabs willing to destroy Israel then? Is it ok for them to "conquer" Isarel when they have the power to do so? What about complaining about Putin conquering Ukraine? Your logic is too Nietzschean.
A well-thought-out piece, Larry. I keep thinking about the settlers in the West Bank, though, who have become even more militant and aggressive since the Hamas attack. The settlers' claims to that land through a Biblical right seems problematic at best.
The husband of one of my friends/former colleagues is an Israeli-Palestinian Christian (he has family, Israeli citizens, who still live in northern Israel). Getting you together could be instructive, for lack of a better word.
I've also been wondering about your reactions to the Congressional hearing fiasco of the Harvard and Penn presidents. As a Penn and Harvard alum, you would have opinions I would value. (Did you post about that, and I missed it?)
Excellent, well told story of how history has settled land ownership and what is going on in Gaza.
I would add one thing. Gazans elected Hamas and polls show the majority of Gazans support Hamas to this day. Gazan videos show citizens celebrating the capture of Israeli citizens.
Distinguishing "civilians" in Gaza is not possible as far as I can tell.
Evacuating women and children (under age of 12) would be a great idea.
And why should the people of Gaza leave? What about the 2 state policy? And who said Hamas is attacking Israel to leave their (stolen) land? Do you even know how the Israelites treat the people of Gaza and West Bank..? Harassing them, trying to push them out of their homes? And ofcourse, every Ramadan in the last 10 most sacred nights for Muslims, they attack them, either from outside Masjid Aqsa or going into it? What business they have to harass worshippers minding their own business..? Creating hostile environments for them to live in, not allowing them to leave, etc. Even your scriptures speak of God punishing the children of Isreal for their arrogance and disobedience. And they haven't changes much since the time of Moses. Weren’t two exiles for the jews already mentioned in the scriptures?
Again, why are you guys trying to chase away the millions of people of Gaza and West Bank anyway? Why should other countries take on so much responsibility if Palestinians already have a homeland?
Where is the source of your claim that Hamas wants to kill all Jews? These are things people "believe" to be true because everyone they know repeats them but never really questioned. Hamas is a terrorist organization and says their aim is to eradicate Israel which is not the same thing as killing all Jews. Israel is a political entity. Actually Hamas accepts the borders of a future Palestine state as the 1967 borders, which is also accepted by UN. This implicitly accepts that the lands which are outside of 1967 borders of Palestine belongs to someone else. Who do you think Hamas thinks those lands belongs to?
I am from Turkey originally and PKK commits terror attacks sometimes on civilians. This does not mean PKK wants to kill all Turks in the world or even wants to establish a Kurdish state all over Turkey.
Also where is the claim that 50%+ Palestinians support Hamas coming from? There has not been any elections in Gaza since 2006.
I don't recall the "PKK" delivering a goal of destroying Turkey and its people.
You seem to have a very biased view of the Middle East. The Arabs and Palestinians had the 1967 borders until they started a war to destroy Israel. They lost and lost Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.
All land in world history is owned by those to take it and can defend it. You side started a war. Your side lost. They are losers. Israel is a winner. Jews owned the land before any Muslims until they were chased out.
From all appearances Hamas and the Palestinians cannot get along with anyone (Egypt doesn't want them, Jordan doesn't want them, Lebanon doesn't want them, Syria doesn't want them, Iran doesn't want them ...). Maybe Hamas and Palestinians should up their game and start loving their enemy rather that wanting to kill them all.
(Recall over 50% of Palestinians fully support Hamas' mission.)
I fail to see a difference between ~wanting to destroy Israel~ and ~wanting to destroy the people of Israel~. Your words are meaningless.
Hamas is a collection of amoral monsters who rape civilian women and murder babies. They shoot rockets into Israeli (and Gazan) neighborhoods hoping to kill "Jews".
I am not informed about the Palestinian issues, but you pale into nothingness when it comes to history of the region. I think you should shut up because you appear to know nothing.
I shared a link with you where Hamas clearly states that they see the borders of Palestine as 1967 borders. This clearly shows that Hamas accepts that there will be another state outside of these borders. And this can only be a state of Jews. If you think otherwise please explain what other state will be there? Israel is a political entity and it is considered as an apartheid state by most humanitarian organizations. Just like having a goal to destroy Nazi Germany in WWII was not the same thing as having a goal to kill all the Germans. Having a goal to destroy Israel in its current form is not the same thing as having a goal to destroy all Jews. By the way I am not pro Hamas which is a terrorist organization and no problem with killing innocent civilians but still this does not mean it wants to kill all Jews. This is not correct. Also most countries in the region are not pro Hamas either but I don't see any difference between Israel's treatment of Hamas and Palestinian Authority.
PKK wants to divide half of Turkey and create an independent state, which means it wants to destroy Turkey as we know today. This is a common trick pro Israelis use to justify Israel's atrocities. States are political entities and being against a political entity is not the same thing as being against its people. Otherwise we can claim that US wants to kill all Iranians because it has a goal to destroy Iranian state.
I will agree with your statement about Jews have a claim to the land based on their ancestors coming from the region 2000 years ago if you accept Germans have right to settle in Central Asia or Turks have right to settle in Mongolia just because their ancestors lived in those regions 2000 years ago. What about a white American whose ancestors came from Europe 200 years ago? Why don't they have right to return to countries where their ancestors came from? Do we all have right to settle in Africa since all of us came from there? This is obviously nonsense as there is no such a claim anywhere else in the world.
If you say Israel won the war so it has right to the land then you should not have any problem with some Arabs' goal of conquering all of Israel. If only legitimacy to own a land is force, you have right to keep those lands as long as you are powerful enough to keep them. So Israel will loose that right whenever it is defeated by anyone else in the future. If this is your claim don't forget that Arab world is a group of countries of 500 millions and population of countries in close proximity of Israel which are hostile is also ~500 millions. And there are around 7 millions Jews in Israel. Your claim assumes that Israel will always be more powerful than these countries in the rest of history. But we are all homo sapiens. 100 years ago China was falling apart and afflicted with civil wars, it could not even resist to invasion of Japan. 50 years ago some historians were claiming Buddhists countries were not capable of developing because of their cultures. Today Asia is the fastest growing region in the world. There is not an end to history and it is not likely that 7 million people will indefinitely be more powerful than 500 million. And there is no guarantee that US / West will always support Israel unconditionally (look at decreasing support of Israel among American youth or rise of ultra right parties in Europe).
So Israel should stop creating more hatred by killing civilians by tens of thousands. Should make a fair peace deal with Palestinians. Create win win relationships with countries and people in the region. There is a limit what you can do with military power in the long term (how long more Israel / US will delay Iran and other countries to acquire nuclear weapons for example? Once Iran got the bomb all other countries in the region will also want them). And Israel should live in peace with Arabs as was the case in history. They are both semitic people, Israel's language is much closer to Arabic than to your language , Israel's culture (music, food etc.) is much closer to Arabic culture than to your culture, even Judaism is much closer to Islam than to Christianity (ex: do you have anything like kosher or halal?). Creating so much hatred to acquire so little land will not worth for Israel unless you are a zealot.
Hi Ahmet,
We are very much on the same page and I realized this immediately. The death of children or any civilians in any country in the many active conflicts is haunting. It turns my stomach ever time I think about it. I have very good friends who are Israelis, Palestinians, Turks, Armenians, Ukrainians, Russians, and the list goes on. None of these people are any different because they were born in country X. None of them would intentionally harm a hair on a child's head. Unfortunately, the universality of mankind has not been promoted and of human values and virtues receives no airtime. And the sociopaths are in charge or become in charge or spend their lives spreading hate. When I was an exchange student in 1967 in Nuremberg, my German "father" told me the worst this about living under the Nazis was the inability to tell your children who they were. If you did, they'd possibly repeat it at school and you'd end up in a camp yourself. He was badly wounded in the Eastern Front. He had no choice about fighting for Hitler. Let's hope that things will improve in all these terrible cases. On a personal note, I wish you and your family a wonderful 2024.
Hi Ed, I agree with you about Hamas and the need to Palestinians to accept peaceful co-existence. They will fare dramatically better if they do. But we need to listen to everyone's views and understand that no one has a monopoly on grievance or justice. The more we hear opposing views, the more we can reason with each other and find common ground that can mutually improve the status quo. Merry Christmas, Larry
No, 12 year old children are not legitimate targets. If a Hamas terrorist is standing next to them, that's a call you'd have to make. How would you make it were you an Israeli? This is why it must end and this is why the only way it will end is for Hamas to deliver the hostages and go into exile. Can we agree on that?
Ahmet, Hamas committed an unspeakable horror. They are a terror group with the goal of exterminating all Jews. If the Israelis had this agenda for the Palestinian people, there would no longer be a Palestinian people. Yes, Palestinians have a right to their historical grievances about the loss of land in Israel. The British have their's as well. So do the Turks and all the other groups, including the descendants of the Christian crusaders, about this land that they all can as theirs. But when you have lost, you look for your best way forward. After many attempts to defeat Israel, the Arab nations have decided it's time to make peace. Palestinians need to do the same. They will end up with much more land at the end of the day if they do. If they side with terror groups, and, to be clear, I'm not claiming the majority of Palestinians side with Hamas or even a large share, they will continue to lose land and property. As you can read in my newsletter, I think civilians in Palestine need food, shelter, medicine, and safety --immediately! I think there are ways this can happen. I'm not sure people outside of Gaza -- like the Turkish government, are thinking about how they can help. I'm hoping my article will get governments to think out of the box about this terrible problem for which Hamas is ultimately responsible. This may be wishful thinking, but many people, at home and abroad, read this newsletter and are also reading our exchange, for which I respectfully thank you and which I appreciate.
Ahmet, What I'm saying is that we can argue right until we are blue in the face and no one will agree. At the end of the day -- and it's been a very long day since 1947 -- the reality is that Israel is here to stay. Palestinians are here to stay as well. The two sides need to live in peace and dignity and free from mutual interference and violence. But that requires both sides to accept the other side's existence. Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map and the rest of the Jews as well, from what I can tell. Not going to happen. It's wiping itself off the map. As for what was ok and what is ok, was it ok for the Romans to take Israel from the Jews? I don't think we can make progress with such questions. Again, right and justice is not what I'm discussing. I have my views, you have yours. I'm talking reality, not metaphysics. best and thanks for engaging. I do really appreciate it. Larry
Don't get me wrong I am not pro Hamas at all. But I am against dehumanization of Hamas. As I wrote below I am from Turkey and PKK commits attacks against innocent civilians. They even killed babies in their attacks to pro state Kurdish villages. In Turkish government and public discourse, the term "baby killer" is very widely used for PKK and its leaders. I am against PKK but against this language as well. You don't need to see PKK or Hamas as freedom fighters or have sympathy for them in order to be against dehumanizing language towards these organizations. Turkey and Israel should also accept their responsibilities in these problems and behave responsibility towards civilians. Also I met with some PKK members in Turkey and some had so much hatred against Turks and some were literally racist (one was claiming Turks are mongoloid and Kurds are Iranian so Kurds are a superior race). Don't expect all these hatred to disappear overnight when Turkey or Israel does the right thing. But they will disappear over time as these countries keep doing the right thing.
As a person from the region (and I am not completely secular either) I personally see Jews as an opportunity for middle east and I would not want them to leave but I want them to be part of this region and live peacefully with the other people, contribute to development of the countries in the region and ensure their security and long term existence this way. I think peace is only possible by creating such a win win equation. Otherwise even if Israel cleans Gaza and West Bank from Palestinians this much hatred will not disappear between Arabs and Israel just like ethnic cleansing of Armenians is still the main reason for hostility between Turkey and Armenia 100 years after the event. Such a peace may seem impossible today but historically Arabs and Jews had much less problems for living together then Jews and Europeans.
Dear HT, I'm talking about sheltering women and children temporarily, not forcing anyone to leave permanently. As for Hamas, read what they say and look at what they did. Israeli's aren't innocent and I'm not condoning every Israeli's behavior, but butchering, raping, murdering, decapitating civilians is not part of their playbook. It is Hamas' playbook. If you didn't see the play, watch it. Plenty of videos. It's time for Palestinians to focus on the feasible, which is not armed resistance, but peaceful co-existence. Larry
What about these claims:
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2023/12/13/civilians-sheltering-inside-a-gaza-school-killed-execution
3 Israeli hostages who were killed recently were apparently naked and waving a white flag. But they were shot without even having chance to explain themselves. We know this because they were Israeli hostages. It is not hard to see similar things happening to Palestinian civilians everyday. I don't see how this is different than what Hamas did.
Frank, thanks for commenting. Yours, Larry
As long as Gazans praise and back Hamas, they do not have my sympathy when they share in Hamas' misery. Also I do not see how there can there be peaceful coexistence with people who praise their "god" whenever an Israeli citizen is killed or raped. As long as that hate filled rabid version of Islam exists, Israel won't have peace and they'd be fools to ever let their guard down. I wish them fortitude because it doesn't seem that that version of Islam is changing any time soon. The difference with the Protestant-Catholic divide in Ireland is that there the authorities in the Vatican and the Church of England and the Presbyterian churches condemned the violence as sin and outside the bounds of Christendom (the terrorists had no real religious backing) whereas the authorities in Islam promote and claim this violence, it is an essential part of their religion.
If all Palestinian people including children are responsible for October 7th attack because of their perceived support of Hamas (perceived because there are no elections in Gaza), then with the same logic all Israeli people would be responsible for the oppression and violence Israeli government is applying on Palestinians (not perceived since current right wing government is elected by Israelis) and they would also be legitimate targets. In that case the reason you hate Hamas cannot be their attack on Israeli civilians. Of course you can say I hate them for what they are not for what they did but then you cannot claim to be morally superior to Hamas.
So there are only two positions here, one is the position of Hamas and right wing Israelis, other is the position of people who are against killing of innocent civilians whether they are Israelis or Palestinians.
Very well said. Thank you for saying what so many in the media will not say
Amen.
"We own the country because we have the power to keep it. Jews own the land of Israel because they can. It’s that simple." So what is the problem Arabs willing to destroy Israel then? Is it ok for them to "conquer" Isarel when they have the power to do so? What about complaining about Putin conquering Ukraine? Your logic is too Nietzschean.
A well-thought-out piece, Larry. I keep thinking about the settlers in the West Bank, though, who have become even more militant and aggressive since the Hamas attack. The settlers' claims to that land through a Biblical right seems problematic at best.
The husband of one of my friends/former colleagues is an Israeli-Palestinian Christian (he has family, Israeli citizens, who still live in northern Israel). Getting you together could be instructive, for lack of a better word.
I've also been wondering about your reactions to the Congressional hearing fiasco of the Harvard and Penn presidents. As a Penn and Harvard alum, you would have opinions I would value. (Did you post about that, and I missed it?)
Excellent, well told story of how history has settled land ownership and what is going on in Gaza.
I would add one thing. Gazans elected Hamas and polls show the majority of Gazans support Hamas to this day. Gazan videos show citizens celebrating the capture of Israeli citizens.
Distinguishing "civilians" in Gaza is not possible as far as I can tell.
Evacuating women and children (under age of 12) would be a great idea.
So 12 years old children are legitimate targets? And you think you are morally superior to Hamas :).
And why should the people of Gaza leave? What about the 2 state policy? And who said Hamas is attacking Israel to leave their (stolen) land? Do you even know how the Israelites treat the people of Gaza and West Bank..? Harassing them, trying to push them out of their homes? And ofcourse, every Ramadan in the last 10 most sacred nights for Muslims, they attack them, either from outside Masjid Aqsa or going into it? What business they have to harass worshippers minding their own business..? Creating hostile environments for them to live in, not allowing them to leave, etc. Even your scriptures speak of God punishing the children of Isreal for their arrogance and disobedience. And they haven't changes much since the time of Moses. Weren’t two exiles for the jews already mentioned in the scriptures?
Again, why are you guys trying to chase away the millions of people of Gaza and West Bank anyway? Why should other countries take on so much responsibility if Palestinians already have a homeland?
50+% of Gazans support Hamas. Hamas wants to kill all Jews by their own admissions. Are you OK with this?
Where is the source of your claim that Hamas wants to kill all Jews? These are things people "believe" to be true because everyone they know repeats them but never really questioned. Hamas is a terrorist organization and says their aim is to eradicate Israel which is not the same thing as killing all Jews. Israel is a political entity. Actually Hamas accepts the borders of a future Palestine state as the 1967 borders, which is also accepted by UN. This implicitly accepts that the lands which are outside of 1967 borders of Palestine belongs to someone else. Who do you think Hamas thinks those lands belongs to?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders
I am from Turkey originally and PKK commits terror attacks sometimes on civilians. This does not mean PKK wants to kill all Turks in the world or even wants to establish a Kurdish state all over Turkey.
Also where is the claim that 50%+ Palestinians support Hamas coming from? There has not been any elections in Gaza since 2006.
I don't recall the "PKK" delivering a goal of destroying Turkey and its people.
You seem to have a very biased view of the Middle East. The Arabs and Palestinians had the 1967 borders until they started a war to destroy Israel. They lost and lost Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.
All land in world history is owned by those to take it and can defend it. You side started a war. Your side lost. They are losers. Israel is a winner. Jews owned the land before any Muslims until they were chased out.
From all appearances Hamas and the Palestinians cannot get along with anyone (Egypt doesn't want them, Jordan doesn't want them, Lebanon doesn't want them, Syria doesn't want them, Iran doesn't want them ...). Maybe Hamas and Palestinians should up their game and start loving their enemy rather that wanting to kill them all.
(Recall over 50% of Palestinians fully support Hamas' mission.)
I fail to see a difference between ~wanting to destroy Israel~ and ~wanting to destroy the people of Israel~. Your words are meaningless.
Hamas is a collection of amoral monsters who rape civilian women and murder babies. They shoot rockets into Israeli (and Gazan) neighborhoods hoping to kill "Jews".
I am not informed about the Palestinian issues, but you pale into nothingness when it comes to history of the region. I think you should shut up because you appear to know nothing.
I shared a link with you where Hamas clearly states that they see the borders of Palestine as 1967 borders. This clearly shows that Hamas accepts that there will be another state outside of these borders. And this can only be a state of Jews. If you think otherwise please explain what other state will be there? Israel is a political entity and it is considered as an apartheid state by most humanitarian organizations. Just like having a goal to destroy Nazi Germany in WWII was not the same thing as having a goal to kill all the Germans. Having a goal to destroy Israel in its current form is not the same thing as having a goal to destroy all Jews. By the way I am not pro Hamas which is a terrorist organization and no problem with killing innocent civilians but still this does not mean it wants to kill all Jews. This is not correct. Also most countries in the region are not pro Hamas either but I don't see any difference between Israel's treatment of Hamas and Palestinian Authority.
PKK wants to divide half of Turkey and create an independent state, which means it wants to destroy Turkey as we know today. This is a common trick pro Israelis use to justify Israel's atrocities. States are political entities and being against a political entity is not the same thing as being against its people. Otherwise we can claim that US wants to kill all Iranians because it has a goal to destroy Iranian state.
I will agree with your statement about Jews have a claim to the land based on their ancestors coming from the region 2000 years ago if you accept Germans have right to settle in Central Asia or Turks have right to settle in Mongolia just because their ancestors lived in those regions 2000 years ago. What about a white American whose ancestors came from Europe 200 years ago? Why don't they have right to return to countries where their ancestors came from? Do we all have right to settle in Africa since all of us came from there? This is obviously nonsense as there is no such a claim anywhere else in the world.
If you say Israel won the war so it has right to the land then you should not have any problem with some Arabs' goal of conquering all of Israel. If only legitimacy to own a land is force, you have right to keep those lands as long as you are powerful enough to keep them. So Israel will loose that right whenever it is defeated by anyone else in the future. If this is your claim don't forget that Arab world is a group of countries of 500 millions and population of countries in close proximity of Israel which are hostile is also ~500 millions. And there are around 7 millions Jews in Israel. Your claim assumes that Israel will always be more powerful than these countries in the rest of history. But we are all homo sapiens. 100 years ago China was falling apart and afflicted with civil wars, it could not even resist to invasion of Japan. 50 years ago some historians were claiming Buddhists countries were not capable of developing because of their cultures. Today Asia is the fastest growing region in the world. There is not an end to history and it is not likely that 7 million people will indefinitely be more powerful than 500 million. And there is no guarantee that US / West will always support Israel unconditionally (look at decreasing support of Israel among American youth or rise of ultra right parties in Europe).
So Israel should stop creating more hatred by killing civilians by tens of thousands. Should make a fair peace deal with Palestinians. Create win win relationships with countries and people in the region. There is a limit what you can do with military power in the long term (how long more Israel / US will delay Iran and other countries to acquire nuclear weapons for example? Once Iran got the bomb all other countries in the region will also want them). And Israel should live in peace with Arabs as was the case in history. They are both semitic people, Israel's language is much closer to Arabic than to your language , Israel's culture (music, food etc.) is much closer to Arabic culture than to your culture, even Judaism is much closer to Islam than to Christianity (ex: do you have anything like kosher or halal?). Creating so much hatred to acquire so little land will not worth for Israel unless you are a zealot.