Hi All, Just my two cents. No advanced country can succeed with a completely open border. So, if it takes sealing the border for six months until Congress votes in a sensible plan, we should do that. But whoever wins, the bipartisan deal that was blocked by Trump will likely be passed. The other major concern is locking poor immigrants and poor Americans, in general, into poverty -- the subject of my latest post, as you know. best, Larry
Agreed, you can't even really have a country without borders. Should there be countries? That's a much bigger science-fiction-level thought experiment for the year 4000 lol. My personal feeling, however, was/is the more open the better in the long run. More freedom of movement and flow of labor/etc. the better. Perhaps that's an emotional response more than a fully rational one.
If you read, You're Hired, at Kotlikoff.net, Sandi, you'll see we agree strongly in providing welfare benefits in kind, to the extent possible and in a highly targeted manner. best, Larry
The problem is we have a toxic and bloated government that as an unconscious belief structure cannot be steered into a more thoughtful and “fair” system. It is a cancer that grows metastatically and making it more efficient will only increase the rate of spread.
Taxation is slavery. Why it isn’t decried as loudly shows the double mindedness of people. Other People’s Money is the OPM of the masses and is more addictive than drugs.
I agree that there are many incentives not to work and/or to work under the table. In addition to major ones included in your study, (health insurance and food stamps) there are many other areas of help for the poor that need to be considered and contrasted to the middle class that may not get the same benefits. Benefits such as discounted broadband and cell services, college grants, free school lunch, reduced property taxes, reduced utility costs, and even discounted Amazon Prime. You are correct that there is an incentive to be a single mother.
The entire tip system should be sunset or dramatically changed. I think most individuals feel tips should be like... a bonus. Someone provided great service, therefore I would like to throw a few more dollars your way. Unfortunately it seems to be a business subsidy that is abused by a great many employers.
The thought that some servers (food service) can be paid only $2 per hour means that tips aren't a 'bonus' but are crucial. We have experienced this when one of our children worked a five hour shift on a slow day and made essentially nothing because there were not enough patrons and some/many of those either didn't tip or tipped poorly. Then, on top of that, they had to share their tips with other staff - who were paid at least minimum wage - and who were equally un-busy.
I would like to place the blame on the business and the patrons, but really the patrons shouldn't be paying the salary of the employee - only 'additional' salary.
Anyway, I can see how not taxing tips could/would be abused. I don't know the solution. My child certainly wasn't required to work here under these rules. I'm against most rules/regulations that restrict a business so long as they aren't engaging in abuses, but tips are a failure. Don't even get me started on tipping showing up everywhere - well outside of service industries and places that should reasonably expect you to give a bonus on top of whatever you are buying/etc.
Nitpick: I do wish people would stop saying 'Pay their fair share' as that is so absurdly subjective. What is 'fair' and why use such words? The world is incredibly 'unfair' and there is an enormous amount of luck involved in each individual's trajectory. I don't find it remotely helpful to use such unclear and politically driven language as 'fair share'.
We could discuss real cloud-cuckoo-land tax policies that would actually put taxes to use for the services, infrastructure and citizens - but we don't have that system. We don['t even experiment with new ideas on the small scale anymore it seems. Nobody has the political power or will to even lie to us about such reforms. They are all too willing to blame China and corporations and the rich - but they don't even pretend to want to control spending or reform broken programs.
Well - that was a a rant lol... guess I'm in that kind of mood after reading through the pep-rally of bad ideas that was the DNC night 1.
I can handle another rant from you after the 2nd "pep rally". I often say "substance over style." I don't know if either convention was substantive. We do need frank tax and responsible policy discussions. That won't happen with one of arms tied behind our backs. We have one political party. The other is a cult. Pay attention to N. Carolina and Mark Robinson. He is why it could, and most likely will go blue. I love Larry's efforts to educate us with the macro-economics, but as in politics, everything is local....as in micro-economics. I think individuals and families believe they need more opportunity and just a bit more "fairness" in tax policy. i.e. Mr Musk needs to contribute some $$ to our national budget, and don't count ALL those taxes that...others....pay into the country. History lesson follows. Long ago, before we changed over to the "interest economy" that Reagan institutionalized, our graduated tax system sans incentives and privileges topped out at 91% in the mid '60s. Wage income prevailed and provided a way of life that was decent. No tax preference for making money off of others' interest debt woes. That's my rant.
Great info. But I always get, now its more angry than annoyed when we talk about poverty in America
Well if you import how many illegal aliens or whatever you want to call them into America, people that came here with nothing we just imported how many 10s of thousands of people in the last 3 years?
We import poverty EVERY DAM DAY IN THIS COUNTRY SO OF COURSE THE POVERTY LEVEL CONTINUES TO GET HIGH.......AND WILL NEVER GET LOWER IF YOU KEEP IMPORTING POVERTY.
HOW ABOUT PUTTING THE BREAKS ON IMPORTING POVERTY AND HELP THE POVERTY STRICKEN THAT ARE HERE NOW???????? SO _UCKING SICK ABOUT KNOW ONE TALKING ABOUT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM BUT THEN WANT TO BRING UP POVERTY IN AMERICA.
And American poverty is not the same as 3rd world poverty. At least not yet anyway
Statistics show that immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than average. And, they are generally hard working and appreciative of the freedoms our country offers. Nobody,...nobody lives the American Dream like an immigrant. Also, they perform, with dignity, many of the menial but difficult jobs "our" people won't do, not that their work skills always stop at that level. Immigrants are not handed a bag of family wealth and influence when they arrive. They are handed an opportunity to achieve a better life for themselves and their families. And, they are grateful and generally do seize the opportunities that they dreamed of for so long.
Honestly, I couldn't agree less. I think we need to open our borders as much as possible while doing our best to background check people. Most immigrants are highly productive workers and commit crimes at a lower rate than average. However, if we do this we need to be sure that these people are being treated the same as American workers so they don't get some kind of under-the-table benefit and are taxed at rates consistent with their earnings.
I think the number of illegals should decrease greatly by nature of them being made, somehow, legal - at least with the ability to get a driver's license and gainful employment and attempt to improve and prove themselves. Immigrants are working in essentially every restaurant kitchen, landscaping and cleaning company.
I don't think illegals are often counted in the poverty calculations and they don't get to enjoy all the same services as citizens anyway.
Tip income: Sounds like you are suggesting that when incented to reduce tax confiscation, people default to doing what appears to be in their best interest. I could tangent on people who work in tipped jobs are mostly low income, part time, left in the dust by society, blah, blah. The conversation goes nowhere. Their behavior is likely no different than that of anyone who does not willingly donate money to the federal government. Perhaps a better idea is to discuss how to make it pleasurable for fiscal agents (politicians AND bureaucrats) whose default setting is the same, to eliminate their drag on society and economics in a thoughtful, meaningful way over time so they do not bankrupt the government while encouraging off the charts foul play. They can make reasons to spend money a lot faster than the economically productive class can produce it. Oh, and as an add on, we need to eliminate their ability to use our collective credit cards when they run out of ways to convince the us to increase our own tax.
Our gov't does what they encourage us to do....and what we actually do, spend and pay later. The government policies that discourage me the most are those that lures consumers to not save, but buy with the expectation of making money by leveraging......big mortgage assuming home prices "always" go up and you never lose your job.
Lots to read. About the No tax on tips proposal. The fault is not that local service workers would want to be paid solely by tips. If not restricted, every commissioned based employee would insist that be considered "tip" income. Same with bonuses. I guarantee you that is what the business enterprise groups would stand in line to lobby the next Steve Mnuchin....like they did with TCAJA.
Hi All, Just my two cents. No advanced country can succeed with a completely open border. So, if it takes sealing the border for six months until Congress votes in a sensible plan, we should do that. But whoever wins, the bipartisan deal that was blocked by Trump will likely be passed. The other major concern is locking poor immigrants and poor Americans, in general, into poverty -- the subject of my latest post, as you know. best, Larry
Agreed, you can't even really have a country without borders. Should there be countries? That's a much bigger science-fiction-level thought experiment for the year 4000 lol. My personal feeling, however, was/is the more open the better in the long run. More freedom of movement and flow of labor/etc. the better. Perhaps that's an emotional response more than a fully rational one.
Joe, I agree fully. Stupid idea. best, Larry
100 percent agree!
Lots of truth in what you write. I'm trying to say this in ways both sides can hear/see. best, Larry
Thanks, Joe! best, Larry
Yup. Agree fully. best, Larry
PS, You using maxifi.com? It's amazing. It will change your financial life.
If you read, You're Hired, at Kotlikoff.net, Sandi, you'll see we agree strongly in providing welfare benefits in kind, to the extent possible and in a highly targeted manner. best, Larry
The problem is we have a toxic and bloated government that as an unconscious belief structure cannot be steered into a more thoughtful and “fair” system. It is a cancer that grows metastatically and making it more efficient will only increase the rate of spread.
Taxation is slavery. Why it isn’t decried as loudly shows the double mindedness of people. Other People’s Money is the OPM of the masses and is more addictive than drugs.
I agree that there are many incentives not to work and/or to work under the table. In addition to major ones included in your study, (health insurance and food stamps) there are many other areas of help for the poor that need to be considered and contrasted to the middle class that may not get the same benefits. Benefits such as discounted broadband and cell services, college grants, free school lunch, reduced property taxes, reduced utility costs, and even discounted Amazon Prime. You are correct that there is an incentive to be a single mother.
The entire tip system should be sunset or dramatically changed. I think most individuals feel tips should be like... a bonus. Someone provided great service, therefore I would like to throw a few more dollars your way. Unfortunately it seems to be a business subsidy that is abused by a great many employers.
The thought that some servers (food service) can be paid only $2 per hour means that tips aren't a 'bonus' but are crucial. We have experienced this when one of our children worked a five hour shift on a slow day and made essentially nothing because there were not enough patrons and some/many of those either didn't tip or tipped poorly. Then, on top of that, they had to share their tips with other staff - who were paid at least minimum wage - and who were equally un-busy.
I would like to place the blame on the business and the patrons, but really the patrons shouldn't be paying the salary of the employee - only 'additional' salary.
Anyway, I can see how not taxing tips could/would be abused. I don't know the solution. My child certainly wasn't required to work here under these rules. I'm against most rules/regulations that restrict a business so long as they aren't engaging in abuses, but tips are a failure. Don't even get me started on tipping showing up everywhere - well outside of service industries and places that should reasonably expect you to give a bonus on top of whatever you are buying/etc.
Nitpick: I do wish people would stop saying 'Pay their fair share' as that is so absurdly subjective. What is 'fair' and why use such words? The world is incredibly 'unfair' and there is an enormous amount of luck involved in each individual's trajectory. I don't find it remotely helpful to use such unclear and politically driven language as 'fair share'.
We could discuss real cloud-cuckoo-land tax policies that would actually put taxes to use for the services, infrastructure and citizens - but we don't have that system. We don['t even experiment with new ideas on the small scale anymore it seems. Nobody has the political power or will to even lie to us about such reforms. They are all too willing to blame China and corporations and the rich - but they don't even pretend to want to control spending or reform broken programs.
Well - that was a a rant lol... guess I'm in that kind of mood after reading through the pep-rally of bad ideas that was the DNC night 1.
I can handle another rant from you after the 2nd "pep rally". I often say "substance over style." I don't know if either convention was substantive. We do need frank tax and responsible policy discussions. That won't happen with one of arms tied behind our backs. We have one political party. The other is a cult. Pay attention to N. Carolina and Mark Robinson. He is why it could, and most likely will go blue. I love Larry's efforts to educate us with the macro-economics, but as in politics, everything is local....as in micro-economics. I think individuals and families believe they need more opportunity and just a bit more "fairness" in tax policy. i.e. Mr Musk needs to contribute some $$ to our national budget, and don't count ALL those taxes that...others....pay into the country. History lesson follows. Long ago, before we changed over to the "interest economy" that Reagan institutionalized, our graduated tax system sans incentives and privileges topped out at 91% in the mid '60s. Wage income prevailed and provided a way of life that was decent. No tax preference for making money off of others' interest debt woes. That's my rant.
Great info. But I always get, now its more angry than annoyed when we talk about poverty in America
Well if you import how many illegal aliens or whatever you want to call them into America, people that came here with nothing we just imported how many 10s of thousands of people in the last 3 years?
We import poverty EVERY DAM DAY IN THIS COUNTRY SO OF COURSE THE POVERTY LEVEL CONTINUES TO GET HIGH.......AND WILL NEVER GET LOWER IF YOU KEEP IMPORTING POVERTY.
HOW ABOUT PUTTING THE BREAKS ON IMPORTING POVERTY AND HELP THE POVERTY STRICKEN THAT ARE HERE NOW???????? SO _UCKING SICK ABOUT KNOW ONE TALKING ABOUT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM BUT THEN WANT TO BRING UP POVERTY IN AMERICA.
And American poverty is not the same as 3rd world poverty. At least not yet anyway
Statistics show that immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than average. And, they are generally hard working and appreciative of the freedoms our country offers. Nobody,...nobody lives the American Dream like an immigrant. Also, they perform, with dignity, many of the menial but difficult jobs "our" people won't do, not that their work skills always stop at that level. Immigrants are not handed a bag of family wealth and influence when they arrive. They are handed an opportunity to achieve a better life for themselves and their families. And, they are grateful and generally do seize the opportunities that they dreamed of for so long.
Honestly, I couldn't agree less. I think we need to open our borders as much as possible while doing our best to background check people. Most immigrants are highly productive workers and commit crimes at a lower rate than average. However, if we do this we need to be sure that these people are being treated the same as American workers so they don't get some kind of under-the-table benefit and are taxed at rates consistent with their earnings.
I think the number of illegals should decrease greatly by nature of them being made, somehow, legal - at least with the ability to get a driver's license and gainful employment and attempt to improve and prove themselves. Immigrants are working in essentially every restaurant kitchen, landscaping and cleaning company.
I don't think illegals are often counted in the poverty calculations and they don't get to enjoy all the same services as citizens anyway.
The antiquated, punitive SSI laws need to change!
Very good column.
Tip income: Sounds like you are suggesting that when incented to reduce tax confiscation, people default to doing what appears to be in their best interest. I could tangent on people who work in tipped jobs are mostly low income, part time, left in the dust by society, blah, blah. The conversation goes nowhere. Their behavior is likely no different than that of anyone who does not willingly donate money to the federal government. Perhaps a better idea is to discuss how to make it pleasurable for fiscal agents (politicians AND bureaucrats) whose default setting is the same, to eliminate their drag on society and economics in a thoughtful, meaningful way over time so they do not bankrupt the government while encouraging off the charts foul play. They can make reasons to spend money a lot faster than the economically productive class can produce it. Oh, and as an add on, we need to eliminate their ability to use our collective credit cards when they run out of ways to convince the us to increase our own tax.
Our gov't does what they encourage us to do....and what we actually do, spend and pay later. The government policies that discourage me the most are those that lures consumers to not save, but buy with the expectation of making money by leveraging......big mortgage assuming home prices "always" go up and you never lose your job.
Lots to read. About the No tax on tips proposal. The fault is not that local service workers would want to be paid solely by tips. If not restricted, every commissioned based employee would insist that be considered "tip" income. Same with bonuses. I guarantee you that is what the business enterprise groups would stand in line to lobby the next Steve Mnuchin....like they did with TCAJA.